Discussion:
FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
(too old to reply)
Ken Poshedly
2017-05-02 14:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Folks,
At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)

The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Is there, praytell, an undocumented feature that toggles keyboard commands on and off?
I await ye answers.
FrameMaker 11.0Windows 7 ProfessionalOodles of space and memory.
-- Ken in AtlantaThe Land of the Fiery and Falling Interstates. (Hey! Duck!)(Thanks to wonders of fast-curing concrete, a 24/7 work schedule and really nice weather, the latest re-opening date was moved back from September to mid-June to May 26. Lots of well-deserved bonuses.)Oh, and the five pro-bono lawyers for the crackhead who started the fire is blaming the state DOT. We can discuss this off-list.
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Robert Lauriston
2017-05-02 14:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth. ...
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Craig Ede
2017-05-02 15:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Again, as someone who is forced to use FM8 daily (alongside FM10,12,2015), I have to say that is not path you want to follow.


The problem does sound like some sort of memory leak thing within FrameMaker though, and they should fix that. You can bet they wont' go back and fix previous versions, so that's another argument against 'downgrading'.

Craig
________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 9:54 AM
To: Ken Poshedly; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth. ...
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Lin Sims
2017-05-02 15:26:19 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, pretty much what Robert said. Frame8 was the last version where the
keyboard shortcuts worked as intended all the time. Something about
instituting the new interface broke things.

As someone who used to use those shortcuts ALL THE TIME, it's annoying that
some don't work ever, and that they all won't work some of the time as
described by Ken.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com>
wrote:

> Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> > Folks,
> > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard
> shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must
> be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened
> again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I
> mean.)
> >
> > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and
> so forth. ...
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
>



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Tammy Van Boening
2017-05-02 16:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Yep, I have posted to the list about this very problem. The only way I can
get it to work again is reboot - more often than not, just closing and
re-opening FM does not work for me at all. And yes, it is a big PITA, and
no, I cannot find any pattern/reason to this behavior either.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
303-840-1744 (Mountain Time)

-----Original Message-----
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=***@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:26 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
<***@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Yeah, pretty much what Robert said. Frame8 was the last version where the
keyboard shortcuts worked as intended all the time. Something about
instituting the new interface broke things.

As someone who used to use those shortcuts ALL THE TIME, it's annoying that
some don't work ever, and that they all won't work some of the time as
described by Ken.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com>
wrote:

> Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> > Folks,
> > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> > keyboard
> shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks
> must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it
> happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well,
> you know what I
> mean.)
> >
> > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM
> > and
> so forth. ...
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe
> and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
>



--
Lin Sims
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Craig, Alison
2017-05-02 17:51:15 UTC
Permalink
I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before creating the final condition settings for manuals.

If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3 hours beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the conditional text.

This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've always assumed there is some issue with memory.

Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.

I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy Frame 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note that I almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).


Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com

From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=***@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:56 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Yep, I have posted to the list about this very problem. The only way I can
get it to work again is reboot - more often than not, just closing and
re-opening FM does not work for me at all. And yes, it is a big PITA, and
no, I cannot find any pattern/reason to this behavior either.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
303-840-1744 (Mountain Time)

-----Original Message-----
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=***@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:26 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
<***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com%3e>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Yeah, pretty much what Robert said. Frame8 was the last version where the
keyboard shortcuts worked as intended all the time. Something about
instituting the new interface broke things.

As someone who used to use those shortcuts ALL THE TIME, it's annoying that
some don't work ever, and that they all won't work some of the time as
described by Ken.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com><mailto:***@lauriston.com%3e>
wrote:

> Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net><mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e>
> wrote:
> > Folks,
> > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> > keyboard
> shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks
> must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it
> happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well,
> you know what I
> mean.)
> >
> > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM
> > and
> so forth. ...
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the list's
> homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe
> and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com<mailto:***@frameusers.com>
>



--
Lin Sims
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________________________________
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Lin Sims
2017-05-02 18:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Wait, what?

What sort of glitches with condition text? I ask because (as previously
seen) I am making heavy use of conditions to create manuals and have had
issues, but I thought it was MY fault.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com>
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before
> creating the final condition settings for manuals.
>
> If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3 hours
> beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the conditional text.
>
> This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've always
> assumed there is some issue with memory.
>
> Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different
> manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
>
> I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy Frame
> 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note that I
> almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
>
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Documentation Specialist
> BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=***@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:56 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Yep, I have posted to the list about this very problem. The only way I can
> get it to work again is reboot - more often than not, just closing and
> re-opening FM does not work for me at all. And yes, it is a big PITA, and
> no, I cannot find any pattern/reason to this behavior either.
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 303-840-1744 (Mountain Time)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc.
> ***@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:26 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> <***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com%3e>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Yeah, pretty much what Robert said. Frame8 was the last version where the
> keyboard shortcuts worked as intended all the time. Something about
> instituting the new interface broke things.
>
> As someone who used to use those shortcuts ALL THE TIME, it's annoying that
> some don't work ever, and that they all won't work some of the time as
> described by Ken.
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com
> ><mailto:***@lauriston.com%3e>
> wrote:
>
> > Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net><
> mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e>
> > wrote:
> > > Folks,
> > > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> > > keyboard
> > shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks
> > must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it
> > happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well,
> > you know what I
> > mean.)
> > >
> > > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM
> > > and
> > so forth. ...
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.
> frameusers.com> Visit the list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe
> > and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com<mailto:
> ***@frameusers.com>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.
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> ***@frameusers.com>
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> _______________________________________________
>
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> frameusers.com>
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> ***@frameusers.com>
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> ________________________________
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>
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--
Lin Sims
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Craig, Alison
2017-05-02 18:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Sometimes the Conditions don't show up correctly - bits of text have the wrong Condition showing or a segment or 2 stays in the Conditional colour.

I've learned to always:

- reboot before setting the final manual Conditions for each manual
- finalize with Conditional colours showing
- turn off Conditional colours and do a last check for "coloured text" before distilling
- page through the entire PDF watching for text still visible in the Conditional colour(s).

Alison

From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=***@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 11:19 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Wait, what?

What sort of glitches with condition text? I ask because (as previously
seen) I am making heavy use of conditions to create manuals and have had
issues, but I thought it was MY fault.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com><mailto:***@bkultrasound.com%3e>
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before
> creating the final condition settings for manuals.
>
> If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3 hours
> beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the conditional text.
>
> This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've always
> assumed there is some issue with memory.
>
> Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different
> manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
>
> I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy Frame
> 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note that I
> almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
>
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Documentation Specialist
> BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com<mailto:***@bkultrasound.com>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=***@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:56 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Yep, I have posted to the list about this very problem. The only way I can
> get it to work again is reboot - more often than not, just closing and
> re-opening FM does not work for me at all. And yes, it is a big PITA, and
> no, I cannot find any pattern/reason to this behavior either.
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com><http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com%3e>
> 303-840-1744 (Mountain Time)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc.
> ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com>]
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 9:26 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> <***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com%3e><mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com%3e><mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com%3e%3e>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Yeah, pretty much what Robert said. Frame8 was the last version where the
> keyboard shortcuts worked as intended all the time. Something about
> instituting the new interface broke things.
>
> As someone who used to use those shortcuts ALL THE TIME, it's annoying that
> some don't work ever, and that they all won't work some of the time as
> described by Ken.
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com<mailto:***@lauriston.com>
> ><mailto:***@lauriston.com%3e><mailto:***@lauriston.com%3e%3e>
> wrote:
>
> > Upgrade to FrameMaker 8?
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net><mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e><
> mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e><mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e%3e>
> > wrote:
> > > Folks,
> > > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> > > keyboard
> > shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks
> > must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it
> > happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well,
> > you know what I
> > mean.)
> > >
> > > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM
> > > and
> > so forth. ...
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:***@lists.
> frameusers.com> Visit the list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe
> > and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com<mailto:***@frameusers.com><mailto:
> ***@frameusers.com><mailto:***@frameusers.com%3e>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:***@lists.
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techcommtools.com
2017-05-02 18:28:48 UTC
Permalink
FWIW, I’ve had great results with conditional text in Fm2015 and Fm2017.

And each subsequent release since Fm10 (including Fm2017) has crashed less than the previous.

I run Fm on a very lean (75 Gb Virtual disk, running Win 8.1) with 16 Gb memory.

Specifically, the changes in conditional text in 2015 and 2017 make conditional text much more enjoyable.

Coupled with the Smart Insert for Conditional Text dialogs (Ctrl 4, 5, and 6), things just work better.

-Matt

Matt R. Sullivan
Tech Comm Tools

online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/> | you can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>

FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
<http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414525942&sr=1-1>
C: 714.585.2335 | ***@mattrsullivan.com <mailto:***@mattrsullivan.com>

<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>  <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>@mattrsullivan <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>  <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>
> On May 2, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before creating the final condition settings for manuals.
>
> If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3 hours beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the conditional text.
>
> This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've always assumed there is some issue with memory.
>
> Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
>
> I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy Frame 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note that I almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
>
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Documentation Specialist
> BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com
>

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Lin Sims
2017-05-02 19:03:58 UTC
Permalink
We recently (as in the beginning of this year) upgraded to FM2015.

I think I'm going to add Alison's checks / process to my final processing.
I haven't had colors show up, but I have had issues with text that has
conditional tags either showing up (or not showing up) inappropriately.

And hope I remember what is supposed to be visible. I may have mentioned
that this damned thing is VERY complicated, although I have, finally,
gotten conditional expressions that control things properly and are
actually fairly elegant (after having used the BFME method first).

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:28 PM, techcommtools.com <***@techcommtools.com>
wrote:

> FWIW, I’ve had great results with conditional text in Fm2015 and Fm2017.
>
> And each subsequent release since Fm10 (including Fm2017) has crashed less
> than the previous.
>
> I run Fm on a very lean (75 Gb Virtual disk, running Win 8.1) with 16 Gb
> memory.
>
> Specifically, the changes in conditional text in 2015 and 2017 make
> conditional text much more enjoyable.
>
> Coupled with the Smart Insert for Conditional Text dialogs (Ctrl 4, 5, and
> 6), things just work better.
>
> -Matt
>
> Matt R. Sullivan
> Tech Comm Tools
>
> online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/> | you
> can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
>
> FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
> <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> ie=UTF8&qid=1414525942&sr=1-1>
> C: 714.585.2335 | ***@mattrsullivan.com <mailto:***@mattrsullivan.com>
>
> <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>@mattrsullivan
> <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/
> mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>LinkedIn <
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/
> mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>Facebook <
> http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>
> > On May 2, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before
> creating the final condition settings for manuals.
> >
> > If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3
> hours beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the conditional
> text.
> >
> > This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've
> always assumed there is some issue with memory.
> >
> > Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different
> manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
> >
> > I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy
> Frame 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note
> that I almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
> >
> >
> > Alison Craig
> > Technical Documentation Specialist
> > BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
>



--
Lin Sims
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Peter Gold
2017-05-02 19:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:

It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.

In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
substituting a different keyboard?

In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?

System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
tablet sensitivity settings?

HTH.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Lin Sims <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> We recently (as in the beginning of this year) upgraded to FM2015.
>
> I think I'm going to add Alison's checks / process to my final processing.
> I haven't had colors show up, but I have had issues with text that has
> conditional tags either showing up (or not showing up) inappropriately.
>
> And hope I remember what is supposed to be visible. I may have mentioned
> that this damned thing is VERY complicated, although I have, finally,
> gotten conditional expressions that control things properly and are
> actually fairly elegant (after having used the BFME method first).
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:28 PM, techcommtools.com <***@techcommtools.com>
> wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I’ve had great results with conditional text in Fm2015 and Fm2017.
> >
> > And each subsequent release since Fm10 (including Fm2017) has crashed
> less
> > than the previous.
> >
> > I run Fm on a very lean (75 Gb Virtual disk, running Win 8.1) with 16 Gb
> > memory.
> >
> > Specifically, the changes in conditional text in 2015 and 2017 make
> > conditional text much more enjoyable.
> >
> > Coupled with the Smart Insert for Conditional Text dialogs (Ctrl 4, 5,
> and
> > 6), things just work better.
> >
> > -Matt
> >
> > Matt R. Sullivan
> > Tech Comm Tools
> >
> > online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/> | you
> > can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
> >
> > FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> > Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> > ie=UTF8&qid=1414525942&sr=1-1>
> > C: 714.585.2335 | ***@mattrsullivan.com <mailto:***@mattrsullivan.com>
> >
> > <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan
> >@mattrsullivan
> > <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/
> > mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>LinkedIn <
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/
> > mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>Facebook <
> > http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>
> > > On May 2, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before
> > creating the final condition settings for manuals.
> > >
> > > If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3
> > hours beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the
> conditional
> > text.
> > >
> > > This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've
> > always assumed there is some issue with memory.
> > >
> > > Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different
> > manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
> > >
> > > I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy
> > Frame 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day (note
> > that I almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
> > >
> > >
> > > Alison Craig
> > > Technical Documentation Specialist
> > > BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> > framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
>
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Lin Sims
2017-05-02 20:17:08 UTC
Permalink
The only commonality I've seen is FrameMaker from version 9 on up, which
was when the interface was redesigned.

I've seen numerous gripes since that time that the new coding had broken
some of the keyboard shortcuts, but it used to be restricted to just the
UNIX carryovers. Recently,I've actually had mine break on Ctrl+C, and that
since upgrading to FrameMaker 2015.

At this point, I don't even ask why. I just grumble about how FM used to be
the most stable program I'd ever used, and restart the program. I haven't
had to reboot to fix this. Yet.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography>
wrote:

> Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
>
> It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
>
> In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> substituting a different keyboard?
>
> In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
>
> System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> tablet sensitivity settings?
>
> HTH.
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Lin Sims <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We recently (as in the beginning of this year) upgraded to FM2015.
> >
> > I think I'm going to add Alison's checks / process to my final
> processing.
> > I haven't had colors show up, but I have had issues with text that has
> > conditional tags either showing up (or not showing up) inappropriately.
> >
> > And hope I remember what is supposed to be visible. I may have mentioned
> > that this damned thing is VERY complicated, although I have, finally,
> > gotten conditional expressions that control things properly and are
> > actually fairly elegant (after having used the BFME method first).
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:28 PM, techcommtools.com <
> ***@techcommtools.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW, I’ve had great results with conditional text in Fm2015 and
> Fm2017.
> > >
> > > And each subsequent release since Fm10 (including Fm2017) has crashed
> > less
> > > than the previous.
> > >
> > > I run Fm on a very lean (75 Gb Virtual disk, running Win 8.1) with 16
> Gb
> > > memory.
> > >
> > > Specifically, the changes in conditional text in 2015 and 2017 make
> > > conditional text much more enjoyable.
> > >
> > > Coupled with the Smart Insert for Conditional Text dialogs (Ctrl 4, 5,
> > and
> > > 6), things just work better.
> > >
> > > -Matt
> > >
> > > Matt R. Sullivan
> > > Tech Comm Tools
> > >
> > > online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/> |
> you
> > > can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
> > >
> > > FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
> > > <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> > > Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> > > ie=UTF8&qid=1414525942&sr=1-1>
> > > C: 714.585.2335 | ***@mattrsullivan.com <mailto:
> ***@mattrsullivan.com>
> > >
> > > <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan
> > >@mattrsullivan
> > > <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/
> > > mattrsullivan> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan>LinkedIn <
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/
> > > mattrsullivan> <http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>Facebook <
> > > http://www.facebook.com/mattrsullivan>
> > > > On May 2, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Craig, Alison <***@bkultrasound.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if this is related to the fact that I have to reboot before
> > > creating the final condition settings for manuals.
> > > >
> > > > If I don't, and I've been working hard in Frame for as little as 2-3
> > > hours beforehand, chances are there will be "glitches" with the
> > conditional
> > > text.
> > > >
> > > > This happens in Frame 12, which I currently use, and Frame 9. I've
> > > always assumed there is some issue with memory.
> > > >
> > > > Having to reboot - often - when you're trying to create 6 different
> > > manuals from the same set of files has a high PITA factor.
> > > >
> > > > I also notice that I'm much more likely to have a crash during heavy
> > > Frame 12 (or 9) use if I haven't rebooted regularly during the day
> (note
> > > that I almost always reboot every evening before I leave the office).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alison Craig
> > > > Technical Documentation Specialist
> > > > BK Ultrasound | ***@bkultrasound.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> > > Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> > > framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
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> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
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> > Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
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--
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Send administrative q
Robert Lauriston
2017-05-02 20:21:19 UTC
Permalink
It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
stops working.

I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
but a generic keyboard with the default driver.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography> wrote:
> Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
>
> It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
>
> In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> substituting a different keyboard?
>
> In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
>
> System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> tablet sensitivity settings?
_______________________________________________

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
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Ken Poshedly
2017-05-02 21:08:36 UTC
Permalink
So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
(What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for an engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers could correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used Word's paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every bullet in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way. I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things that day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking how could Microsoft let this happen.
The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."


On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com> wrote:


It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
stops working.

I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
but a generic keyboard with the default driver.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography> wrote:
> Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
>
> It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
>
> In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> substituting a different keyboard?
>
> In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
>
> System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> tablet sensitivity settings?
_______________________________________________

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Send admini
Robert Lauriston
2017-05-02 21:29:20 UTC
Permalink
I can't remember a Microsoft product release with similarly serious
bugs that still weren't fixed eight years or six major releases later.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
> (What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for an engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers could correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used Word's paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
> I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every bullet in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way. I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
> But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things that day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking how could Microsoft let this happen.
> The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com> wrote:
>
> It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
> the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
> the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
> stops working. ///
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Fred Ridder
2017-05-02 21:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Don't get me started on bullets and autonumbering in MS applications. Once upon a time it just worked. And then they started making it more "helpful" and automatic... and unreliable and impossible to troubleshoot when it breaks.


But if you want to see a real horror show, spend a while trying to clean up the bullets in PowerPoint slide decks that have contributions from a half-dozen different engineers in three different countries using four different templates (or no template at all). I just went through that exact scenario on 21 separate presentations for a Very Important Customer. I *really* hate PowerPoint and the way its "master pages" work.

-FR

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 5:08 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
(What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for an engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers could correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used Word's paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every bullet in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way. I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things that day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking how could Microsoft let this happen.
The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."


On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com> wrote:


It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
stops working.

I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
but a generic keyboard with the default driver.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography> wrote:
> Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
>
> It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
>
> In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> substituting a different keyboard?
>
> In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
>
> System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> tablet sensitivity settings?
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Craig, Alison
2017-05-02 22:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Fred. You took the words right out of my mouth!

Alison

From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=***@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 2:41 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.; Ken Poshedly
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Don't get me started on bullets and autonumbering in MS applications. Once upon a time it just worked. And then they started making it more "helpful" and automatic... and unreliable and impossible to troubleshoot when it breaks.

But if you want to see a real horror show, spend a while trying to clean up the bullets in PowerPoint slide decks that have contributions from a half-dozen different engineers in three different countries using four different templates (or no template at all). I just went through that exact scenario on 21 separate presentations for a Very Important Customer. I *really* hate PowerPoint and the way its "master pages" work.

-FR

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com%3e> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net><mailto:***@bellsouth.net%3e>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 5:08 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
(What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for an engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers could correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used Word's paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every bullet in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way. I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things that day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking how could Microsoft let this happen.
The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."


On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com><mailto:***@lauriston.com%3e> wrote:


It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
stops working.

I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
but a generic keyboard with the default driver.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography><mailto:***@petergold.photography%3e> wrote:
> Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
>
> It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
>
> In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> substituting a different keyboard?
>
> In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
>
> System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> other adjustments affect the problem? What about trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> tablet sensitivity settings?
_______________________________________________

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Messages by Thread [Framers] Frame Help files Gillian Flato. Re: [Framers] Frame Help files Rick Quatro; Re: [Framers] Frame Help files Pat Christenson


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Steve Rickaby
2017-05-03 08:40:35 UTC
Permalink
This is going OT but it's interesting to see how much deep and embedded bitterness bullets and numbering in Word have engendered.

FWIW, when I faced this issue in anger many, many years ago I hired an MVP I knew to sort it all out. She assured me that Word's underlying numbering 'engine' was ok, but the issue lay in its interface with the dialog that allows you to 'customize' bullets and numbering: beyond that, There Be Dragons.

Her solution was to talk to the numbering engine in VB. It all just worked. I forget the details.

--
Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet]
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Peter Gold
2017-05-02 22:18:04 UTC
Permalink
So, the ancient recollection of something eating keystrokes was generically
on the right troubleshooting path. Hooray!

As to other old memories:

FullWrite Professional (a promising feature-filled Mac word processor) had
the fantastic ability to randomly animate bullet points, so, there was no
reason to get bored while staring at pages of pithy tech content on screen.
You could just watch and wait for one or more of them to hop around.

Then, there was the post claiming that "lorem ipsum" placeholder text
wasn't randomly-generated, but was arguably written by indentured scribes,
forerunners of technical writers, because the translation was something
like "we love to write and beat ourselves with sticks."

Cheers!

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
> (What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for an
> engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers could
> correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used Word's
> paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
> I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every bullet
> in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way.
> I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
> But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the
> last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things that
> day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking how could
> Microsoft let this happen.
> The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this
> happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <
> ***@lauriston.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
> the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
> the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
> stops working.
>
> I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
> half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
> but a generic keyboard with the default driver.
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold <***@petergold.photography>
> wrote:
> > Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
> >
> > It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
> >
> > In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard driver
> > issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or other input
> > devices, multiple display screens and associated drivers? Less exotic, is
> > it possible that the usual physical keyboard itself has intermittent keys
> > or connections? If it's wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the
> > issue? Charging or replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when
> > substituting a different keyboard?
> >
> > In the software domain, are there utilities running in background, like
> > font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
> >
> > System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed and
> > other adjustments affect the problem? What about
> trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> > tablet sensitivity settings?
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
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> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
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Pat Christenson
2017-05-03 14:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Peter, thanks for making me laugh. I'd never heard about the lorem ipsum translation.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=***@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 5:18 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <***@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

So, the ancient recollection of something eating keystrokes was generically on the right troubleshooting path. Hooray!

As to other old memories:

FullWrite Professional (a promising feature-filled Mac word processor) had the fantastic ability to randomly animate bullet points, so, there was no reason to get bored while staring at pages of pithy tech content on screen.
You could just watch and wait for one or more of them to hop around.

Then, there was the post claiming that "lorem ipsum" placeholder text wasn't randomly-generated, but was arguably written by indentured scribes, forerunners of technical writers, because the translation was something like "we love to write and beat ourselves with sticks."

Cheers!

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> So all-in-all, it's just Adobe emulating Microsoft.
> (What does he mean by that?) Back in 2006 while I was contracting for
> an engineering firm and ordered to use only Word "so the engineers
> could correct my work." (Ptooey!) I remember an incident where I used
> Word's paragraph tag-method to tag bulleted text.
> I was on page 125 or so, tagged something bullet and voila!, every
> bullet in the book disappeared, yet all "bulleted text" was still tagged that way.
> I tried everything I knew to fix things but to no avail.
> But, ah, thank heavens for Ctrl-Z. Everything returned, except for the
> last bullet that I worked on. I don't remember how I "fixed" things
> that day, but I did post a message on the tech-wrl e-mail list, asking
> how could Microsoft let this happen.
> The reply / replies were basically, "Because Microsoft CAN (let this
> happen) because it doesn't matter to them since we're just peons."
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:21 PM, Robert Lauriston <
> ***@lauriston.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's an artifact of the nonstandard, buggy UI Adobe layered on top of
> the legacy FrameMaker code in FM9. The API or whatever that transmits
> the keystrokes from the new layer to the legacy code occasionally
> stops working.
>
> I've never seen similar behavior in any other application on the
> half-dozen systems where I've run FM9 or later. I never used anything
> but a generic keyboard with the default driver.
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Peter Gold
> <***@petergold.photography>
> wrote:
> > Just a couple of wild thoughts pulled from long-ago experiences:
> >
> > It sounds as if the normal flow of keystrokes is being affected somehow.
> >
> > In the hardware domain, is it possible that there are keyboard
> > driver issues - updates needed, multiple conflicting keyboards or
> > other input devices, multiple display screens and associated
> > drivers? Less exotic, is it possible that the usual physical
> > keyboard itself has intermittent keys or connections? If it's
> > wireless, does connecting it with a cable fix the issue? Charging or
> > replacing its battery? Does the problem persist when substituting a different keyboard?
> >
> > In the software domain, are there utilities running in background,
> > like font managers, display customizers, or screen-capture demons?
> >
> > System domain: Does varying the settings for keyboard repeat speed
> > and other adjustments affect the problem? What about
> trackpad/touchpad/graphics
> > tablet sensitivity settings?
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
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Peter Gold
2017-05-03 18:31:15 UTC
Permalink
You're welcome, Pat. I got a big laugh from it the first time I saw it back
in the '90s. IIRC, Janice Gelb originally posted it. As I think more on it,
I'm pretty sure that she claimed to have translated it. Whatever, she
deserves the credit!


On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Pat Christenson <
***@morningstar.com> wrote:

> Peter, thanks for making me laugh. I'd never heard about the lorem ipsum
> translation.
>
> Pat
>
> So, the ancient recollection of something eating keystrokes was
> generically on the right troubleshooting path. Hooray!
>
> As to other old memories:
>
> FullWrite Professional (a promising feature-filled Mac word processor) had
> the fantastic ability to randomly animate bullet points, so, there was no
> reason to get bored while staring at pages of pithy tech content on screen.
> You could just watch and wait for one or more of them to hop around.
>
> Then, there was the post claiming that "lorem ipsum" placeholder text
> wasn't randomly-generated, but was arguably written by indentured scribes,
> forerunners of technical writers, because the translation was something
> like "we love to write and beat ourselves with sticks."
>
> Cheers!
>
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Robert Lauriston
2017-05-02 17:54:26 UTC
Permalink
I reported that bug in 2009, the first time I used the weird UI
introduced in FM9.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Tammy Van Boening
<***@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> Yep, I have posted to the list about this very problem. The only way I can
> get it to work again is reboot - more often than not, just closing and
> re-opening FM does not work for me at all. And yes, it is a big PITA, and
> no, I cannot find any pattern/reason to this behavior either.
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Fred Ridder
2017-05-02 14:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Umm, if something is completed earlier than originally scheduled, the completion date is moved *up*, (or moved forward, or advanced) not moved back. Moving back means delaying or postponing.


-FR

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:36 AM
To: Framers List
Subject: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Folks,
At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)

The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Is there, praytell, an undocumented feature that toggles keyboard commands on and off?
I await ye answers.
FrameMaker 11.0Windows 7 ProfessionalOodles of space and memory.
-- Ken in AtlantaThe Land of the Fiery and Falling Interstates. (Hey! Duck!)(Thanks to wonders of fast-curing concrete, a 24/7 work schedule and really nice weather, the latest re-opening date was moved back from September to mid-June to May 26. Lots of well-deserved bonuses.)Oh, and the five pro-bono lawyers for the crackhead who started the fire is blaming the state DOT. We can discuss this off-list.
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Klaus Daube
2017-05-03 08:20:38 UTC
Permalink
On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do
not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about
FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop -
but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the
fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific
short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html and following
posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich Web: www.daube.ch


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Stefan Gentz
2017-05-03 09:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Klaus,

thanks for filing in this as a bug.

@all: Could you please put in your System Configuration (exact Windows version / 32/64 bit) and other software (name, version) that you are using that forces this behavior to occur in the bug report, that Klaus has created:
https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2325

Thanks! This will help us to investigate this further.

Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
          
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=***@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Klaus Daube
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 10:21
To: Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <***@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and
> all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA.
> And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever.
> (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop - but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fframers%40lists.frameusers.com%2Fmsg66590.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2cb85bf49ceb4a93990b08d491fd4e95%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636293964506987225&sdata=b1Y9QEF9eHc8wf5NGC3zhEK%2FZvteUVaxEJHjB1hRJZM%3D&reserved=0 and following posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich Web: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.daube.ch&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2cb85bf49ceb4a93990b08d491fd4e95%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636293964506987225&sdata=C3p0Vy6nJvZYYjZur0nfOoekHnGwsw4trQgtAOkO86E%3D&reserved=0


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Lin Sims
2017-05-03 13:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Do you want information for the Esc+ shortcuts, also? That's a more
frequent problem.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Stefan Gentz <***@adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi Klaus,
>
> thanks for filing in this as a bug.
>
> @all: Could you please put in your System Configuration (exact Windows
> version / 32/64 bit) and other software (name, version) that you are using
> that forces this behavior to occur in the bug report, that Klaus has
> created:
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2325
>
> Thanks! This will help us to investigate this further.
>
> Regards,
> Stefan Gentz
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=***@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Klaus Daube
> Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 10:21
> To: Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>; An email list for people using
> Adobe FrameMaker software. <***@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all
> > keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and
> > all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA.
> > And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever.
> > (Well, you know what I mean.)
> >
> > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and
> so forth.
>
> Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx
> shortcuts do not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature'
> exists since about FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows
> installation on a new laptop - but it did not. So it definetely must be
> something with FrameMaker.
>
> I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
> - switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
> - switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably
> creates the fault.
>
> I have just added to that bug report:
> «It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows
> specific short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fframers%40lists.
> frameusers.com%2Fmsg66590.html&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7C2cb85bf49ceb4a93990b08d491fd4e95%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636293964506987225&sdata=b1Y9QEF9eHc8wf5NGC3zhEK%
> 2FZvteUVaxEJHjB1hRJZM%3D&reserved=0 and following posts.»
>
> Klaus
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
> Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
> CH-8053 Zürich Web: https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=www.daube.ch&data=02%7C01%7C%
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> 4trQgtAOkO86E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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--
Lin Sims
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Ken Poshedly
2017-05-03 13:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Many, many thanks Rick!
If an update or bug-fix is released, it will hopefully apply downward to at least FM10 (which I run at home) and FM11 (which I run at my office) because I know for sure that my company will NEVER update to a newer version because it costs money. (Plus, I myself prefer to have all my stuff -- program and data files -- right on my own hard drive.)
-- Ken in Atlanta


On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:20 AM, Klaus Daube <***@daube.ch> wrote:


On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do
not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about
FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop -
but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the
fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific
short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html and following
posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube            Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11          Mail:  ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich          Web:    www.daube.ch





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Craig Ede
2017-05-03 17:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Let's see what happens with bug-fixes to the older versions.


Craig

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:46 AM
To: ***@daube.ch; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Many, many thanks Rick!
If an update or bug-fix is released, it will hopefully apply downward to at least FM10 (which I run at home) and FM11 (which I run at my office) because I know for sure that my company will NEVER update to a newer version because it costs money. (Plus, I myself prefer to have all my stuff -- program and data files -- right on my own hard drive.)
-- Ken in Atlanta


On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:20 AM, Klaus Daube <***@daube.ch> wrote:


On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do
not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about
FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop -
but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the
fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific
short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html and following
posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich Web: www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...







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Fred Ridder
2017-05-03 17:24:58 UTC
Permalink
I would be very surprised to see any bug fixes for older versions of FrameMaker. What would be the business case for Adobe expending resources that produce absolutely no revenue? If the bug related to a security issue or file corruption that caused users t lose work, that would be one thing. But a long-standing bug that only annoys users who are trying to use deprecated or undocumented features? I'd say that's pretty unlikely to ever have resources allocated to it.

-FR

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 1:12 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Let's see what happens with bug-fixes to the older versions.


Craig

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:46 AM
To: ***@daube.ch; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Many, many thanks Rick!
If an update or bug-fix is released, it will hopefully apply downward to at least FM10 (which I run at home) and FM11 (which I run at my office) because I know for sure that my company will NEVER update to a newer version because it costs money. (Plus, I myself prefer to have all my stuff -- program and data files -- right on my own hard drive.)
-- Ken in Atlanta


On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:20 AM, Klaus Daube <***@daube.ch> wrote:


On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do
not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about
FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop -
but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the
fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific
short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html and following
posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich Web: www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...







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Lin Sims
2017-05-03 18:14:25 UTC
Permalink
If you're talking about the Esc shortcuts, I hadn't heard that they'd been
deprecated. They're certainly still documented in the Keyboard Shortcuts
appendix (up through FrameMaker 2015).

I don't know if I'd expect Adobe to fix earlier versions, but it would be
nice if it could be fixed for at least the current version.

Also, having standard Windows shortcuts like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, or Ctrl+P fail
is an issue (this has happened to me intermittently), and I would certainly
expect a fix for that.

NB: The Esc shortcuts I've had issues with had to do with movement in
tables (move to cell above or below), and they have not worked since
Frame8. On the other hand, somewhere around FM12 (10?) we got the ability
to use cursor keys to navigate between rows, and I haven't tried to use
those except to see if they worked. I've also had issues with copying table
widths, but that one is intermittent. Mostly it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I haven't tried to test any of the shortcuts, I just noticed the ones that
didn't work when I tried to use them.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Fred Ridder <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would be very surprised to see any bug fixes for older versions of
> FrameMaker. What would be the business case for Adobe expending resources
> that produce absolutely no revenue? If the bug related to a security issue
> or file corruption that caused users t lose work, that would be one thing.
> But a long-standing bug that only annoys users who are trying to use
> deprecated or undocumented features? I'd say that's pretty unlikely to ever
> have resources allocated to it.
>
> -FR
>
> ________________________________
> From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com>
> on behalf of Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Let's see what happens with bug-fixes to the older versions.
>
>
> Craig
>
> ________________________________
> From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com>
> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:46 AM
> To: ***@daube.ch; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker
> software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop
>
> Many, many thanks Rick!
> If an update or bug-fix is released, it will hopefully apply downward to
> at least FM10 (which I run at home) and FM11 (which I run at my office)
> because I know for sure that my company will NEVER update to a newer
> version because it costs money. (Plus, I myself prefer to have all my stuff
> -- program and data files -- right on my own hard drive.)
> -- Ken in Atlanta
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:20 AM, Klaus Daube <***@daube.ch> wrote:
>
>
> On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard
> shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must
> be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened
> again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I
> mean.)
> >
> > The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and
> so forth.
>
> Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx
> shortcuts do
> not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since
> about
> FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new
> laptop -
> but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.
>
> I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
> - switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
> - switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably
> creates the
> fault.
>
> I have just added to that bug report:
> «It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows
> specific
> short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
> http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html
> and following
> posts.»
>
> Klaus
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
> Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
> CH-8053 Zürich Web: www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
> Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
> www.daube.ch
> Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal
> with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient
> communication of ...
>
>
> Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
> Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
> www.daube.ch
> Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal
> with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient
> communication of ...
>
>
> www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
> Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
> www.daube.ch
> Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal
> with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient
> communication of ...
>
>
> Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal
> with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient
> communication of ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> framers - The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.
> frameusers.com/>
> www.mail-archive.com
> Messages by Thread Re: [Framers] Suddenly not working FM functionality? -
> also, a shout-out to Tech Support for being so responsive!!!! Tammy Van
> Boening
>
>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Framers Info Page - lists.frameusers.com Mailing Lists<
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com>
> lists.frameusers.com
> About the Framers email list. The purpose of this list is to share
> information about using Adobe Framemaker. We welcome experienced users,
> newcomers, and people ...
>
>
> Send administrative questions to ***@frameusers.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to ***@lists.frameusers.com
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> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> framers - The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.
> frameusers.com/>
> www.mail-archive.com
> Messages by Thread Re: [Framers] Suddenly not working FM functionality? -
> also, a shout-out to Tech Support for being so responsive!!!! Tammy Van
> Boening
>
>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
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> Framers Info Page - lists.frameusers.com Mailing Lists<
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com>
> lists.frameusers.com
> About the Framers email list. The purpose of this list is to share
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--
Lin Sims
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Craig Ede
2017-05-03 20:08:20 UTC
Permalink
And what if the bug fix to an earlier version introduced a new bug? As I said a couple of messages ago, I highly doubt that any fix would be applied to earlier versions of FrameMaker. I'm not sure that any company does that.


Craig

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Fred Ridder <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 12:24 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

I would be very surprised to see any bug fixes for older versions of FrameMaker. What would be the business case for Adobe expending resources that produce absolutely no revenue? If the bug related to a security issue or file corruption that caused users t lose work, that would be one thing. But a long-standing bug that only annoys users who are trying to use deprecated or undocumented features? I'd say that's pretty unlikely to ever have resources allocated to it.

-FR

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+docudoc=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 1:12 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Let's see what happens with bug-fixes to the older versions.


Craig

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Ken Poshedly <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:46 AM
To: ***@daube.ch; An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Many, many thanks Rick!
If an update or bug-fix is released, it will hopefully apply downward to at least FM10 (which I run at home) and FM11 (which I run at my office) because I know for sure that my company will NEVER update to a newer version because it costs money. (Plus, I myself prefer to have all my stuff -- program and data files -- right on my own hard drive.)
-- Ken in Atlanta


On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:20 AM, Klaus Daube <***@daube.ch> wrote:


On 2 May 2017 at 14:36, Ken Poshedly wrote:

> Folks,
> At least every other day, and for no reason obvious to me, all keyboard shortcuts in FrameMaker will stop working after awhile and all tasks must be done via menus-and-mouse. For me, this such a PITA. And it happened again this morning. This has been going on forever. (Well, you know what I mean.)
>
> The only fix I know of is to close everything, exit FM, re-open FM and so forth.

Ken, I have filed a bug FRMAKER-2325 stating that frequently all CTRL+xx shortcuts do
not work any more. On my system (W7 XP1, x64) this 'feature' exists since about
FM-11. I hoped it would go away with a fresh Windows installation on a new laptop -
but it did not. So it definetely must be something with FrameMaker.

I have even discovered that the following actions can trigger the fault:
- switch to another application (e.g. text editor) and back to FM
- switch to Pincackle Studio (a video editor) and back reproduceably creates the
fault.

I have just added to that bug report:
«It seems that not only CTRL-xxx shortcuts are affected, but all Windows specific
short cuts (not the ESC sequences). See the lengthy lamento on
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@lists.frameusers.com/msg66590.html and following
posts.»

Klaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11 Mail: ***@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich Web: www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Docu + Design Daube<http://www.daube.ch/>
www.daube.ch<http://www.daube.ch>
Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...


Technical documentation is the business of Docu + Design Daube. We deal with all aspects of technical documentation: structure, language, efficient communication of ...







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Robert Lauriston
2017-05-03 20:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Any company that wants to sell installed software to large
organizations can't limit support (which includes major bug fixes and
security updates) to the current release.

Adobe used to do that for FrameMaker.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> And what if the bug fix to an earlier version introduced a new bug? As I said a couple of messages ago, I highly doubt that any fix would be applied to earlier versions of FrameMaker. I'm not sure that any company does that.
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Craig Ede
2017-05-03 22:34:24 UTC
Permalink
This page gives some information about when the last updates for various versions of FrameMaker were released:


http://supportdownloads.adobe.com/product.jsp?product=22&platform=Windows


Look like FM8 was last updated 7/15/2009 and that it was an update to fix a problem caused by Win XP SP3. But that's the place to watch if you're hoping for bug fixes for older versions.


Craig

________________________________
From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=***@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of Robert Lauriston <***@lauriston.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 3:25 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker keyboard shortcuts just stop

Any company that wants to sell installed software to large
organizations can't limit support (which includes major bug fixes and
security updates) to the current release.

Adobe used to do that for FrameMaker.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> And what if the bug fix to an earlier version introduced a new bug? As I said a couple of messages ago, I highly doubt that any fix would be applied to earlier versions of FrameMaker. I'm not sure that any company does that.
_______________________________________________

This message is from the Framers mailing list

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Messages by Thread Re: [Framers] Suddenly not working FM functionality? - also, a shout-out to Tech Support for being so responsive!!!! Tammy Van Boening


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Robert Lauriston
2017-05-04 01:19:37 UTC
Permalink
They never issued updates for releases for which support has expired.
The question is whether they're continuing to issue updates for FM
2015 now that FM 2017 is out.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Craig Ede <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This page gives some information about when the last updates for various versions of FrameMaker were released:
>
>
> http://supportdownloads.adobe.com/product.jsp?product=22&platform=Windows
>
>
> Look like FM8 was last updated 7/15/2009 and that it was an update to fix a problem caused by Win XP SP3. But that's the place to watch if you're hoping for bug fixes for older versions.
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