Conditional Text Question

[Sam Beard]

Hello All,



I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.



I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.



Thanks much in advance!



Samuel I. Beard, Jr.

Technical Writer

OI Analytical

979 690-1711 Ext. 222

***@oico.com

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I don't understand why you have three files for each book. Why can't you
have one file for both books and mark the text which should only appear
in Version 1 as "Version1" and mark the text which should only appear in
Version 2 as "Version2." The rest of the text should not be marked as
conditionalized. You can mark an entire table or a table row.

You can select which conditional text to view (which also affects
printing), and whether to show the conditional indicators (the color or
style you used for the conditional text).

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson

Post by Sam Beard
Hello All,
I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.
I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.
Thanks much in advance!
Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
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[Reng, Winfried Dr.]

Hi Sam,

When you apply a condition to a table row, the cells in this
row get a thick coloured border. That's intended behaviour.
When you hide the condition indicators, this border disappears.
Is this what you want to achieve?

Apart from that you can also delete a condition and also the
text and table rows, the condition was applied to.

Best regards

Winfried

-----Original Message-----
]On Behalf
Of Sam Beard
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question
Hello All,
I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate
between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version
1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do
this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.
I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.
Thanks much in advance!
Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
or visit
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coint.com

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[Ellen Lebelle]

<< I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.

Hello Samuel,
I get the digest, so perhaps someone else has already answered this.

There's no need to maintain 3 versions of the chapters.

1. Create your book "A", add the chapters, and cover material. I keep a
different cover for each version and my cover has the conditional text
settings and variables I want for it's version.

2. Make sure you "turn off" the conditional text indicators, so the text and
tables appear "normal" (no colored lines around the table cells or colored
text).

3. Import the conditional text settings and variables to the chapters in the
book. Check to make sure everything is ok.

4. Now, create the TOC and IX and finish the book.

For Book B - you'll have the other conditional settings and variables in the
cover, so when you create book B, with the same chapters, just remember that
you have to import the settings from cover "B".

Ellen Lebelle
Technical Writer
***@gmail.com

[Combs, Richard]

Post by Sam Beard
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good.
However, I also have ALL of the text in all three files,
albeit Version 1's text is hidden in Version 2, and
vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently remove the text for
Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while maintaining
the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table
cells that are marked as conditional.

You're missing the whole point of using conditions: to create
_multiple_outputs_ from a _single_source_. You should have exactly _one_
file for each chapter, or why bother with all the combining and
conditionalizing?

To get your different outputs, you just change the condition settings,
hiding B for output A and vice versa.

If you're seeing colored borders around table cells, it's because you're
not only showing that condition, you're also showing condition
indicators. Those are useful when editing, but must be turned off when
you're ready to print/PDF.

HTH!
Richard


------
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
------
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
------

[Ellen Lebelle]

<< If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158.

OK, Sam.

How about using smaller text insets that you import into your chapters. So
your chapter is a shell - not quite empty - you can have most of your
generic text there, but when you get to a topic that is product A, you
import the text inset for product A and make it "conditional" and do the
same for product B. When you import your conditional settings from the book
cover, only the relevant text insets will appear.

Use Bruce Foster's Archiver to make an archive of the A book and label it
with the date and number. Do the same for Book B and these archives remain
archives, and your source files can be updated without fouling up the
archived books.

Another solution is to use Structured FM and use Russ Ward's, Inset Plus
(which allows you to inset text insets, update them and save the updates to
them with no fuss) and ABCM (which allows you to use attributes and assign
them colors - like conditional text - but better!). When you filter a book
with the attributes you want, it creates new files that you can save for
your archives. Your source files still contain everything. And you only need
to update your source files.

Ellen

[Combs, Richard]

Thanks much for the help on this issue, but I need to
clarify a few things. First, I'm aware of the purpose of
using conditional text, which is what helped me to get this
job. However, I have no real choice as to having three
separate files (my second point), because of our
documentation control system. We number our documents with a
one-up system, including the month/year as the last four
parts of an eight-digit number. If these documents were for a
new product line, we MIGHT be able to get away with putting
them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines.
The first one is 1950 while the second one is 2158.
Therefore, I have to maintain having three separate books for
each document, hiding and viewing the appropriate conditional
text and saving it to the appropriate folder on our system.
Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that, then
that's the way it is here.

Hmm.

Is your doc control system intended to control the _source_ files or the
_output_ files? If it's the former, you're already "cheating" by having
an unnumbered "master" from which you create the 1950 and 2158 versions.
In this case, the system isn't accomplishing its purpose and needs to be
re-evaluated. Pretending that the two derivative versions are really the
source isn't the right solution.

If the doc control and numbering is for the output/deliverable, not for
the source, then a single set of source files containing both doc
numbers (conditionalized appropriately) is the way to go.

As for the condition indicators: For the current file, open the
Conditional Text dialog, and click Show/Hide to display the Show/Hide
Conditional Text dialog. There, clear the Show Condition Indicators
check box to hide the color and formatting of conditions.

Alternatively, you can do this quickly at the book level: In the book
window, select all files. Then select View > Hide Conditional Text
Indicators (or View > Show/Hide Conditional Text if you need to choose
conditions to hide as well as hiding the condition indicators).

HTH!
Richard

[Rene Stephenson]

Sam,

It sounds like you're using unstructured FM? We are, and we considered going to Structured FM, but the learning curve and conversion time just wouldn't fit into our very tight (R&D) timelines. (I still fantasize about it, though! LOL)

We have the same setup here with our product life cycle control system. We have to provide the source files for each document for each product, even though they're single-sourced. It has taken a couple of years of trial and error and gleaning new ideas and tools from contributors to this list for us to piece together a process that works well for us, and it's not a single answer. I'm sure you'll figure out the right solution for your environment.

We have found that due to the quirks of how FM handles headings and conditional text in text insets, it is only easily manageable for us to use text insets in body paragraph chunks that do not contain condition tags or variables. In this case, the text inset itself is literally the smallest discrete chunk—i.e., a single procedure that is reused multiple times in one or more books, a product overview paragraph, some standard warning text, a common note, etc. If the text inset doesn't apply to all outputs, we conditionalize the insertion marker itself for the text inset so that the whole inset shows only in the tagged output.

We do use some shared files that are heavily condition tagged and included in several book files for output purposes. In a boilerplate folder, we have the boilerplate stuff from the copyright notice, the Preface, and the universal glossary set up as separate FM files in a common files directory on the network. Each of these files is tagged to show only what is appropriate for each output that uses them. The benefit of having a universal glossary this way is that all writers can contribute to it; it's all synchronized after a single edit; and everyone can link into it via cross-reference or hypertext links without losing anything when they update the book. Likewise, updates to release statements, copyright dates, trademark notices, etc., are all handled in a single change that ripples through the entire library.

We have variables in the headers and footers of all master pages of all FM files (template-based) wherever the doc number, doc title, issue date, etc., are needed. This facilitates quick customization. We use conditioned anchored frames on the cover as well as the variables to customize what shows for each product line.

We have a folder for common product files where we keep things like the appendices of part numbers, ordering information, etc. All of these files are heavily condition tagged—down to the word or table row or cell text level.

For each output, there is an individual book file with coordinating [outputName]settings.fm file. The setting file contains only the 5 user variables required for changing the doc title, doc number, issue date, release number, etc., as well as the condition tag settings required for publishing that particular output. The book file contains all the files required for the output:
* Cover
* boilerplate front matter
* TOC
* LOT
* LOF
* Chapter files (som shared, esp. between install, maintenance, and troubleshooting docs)
* Appendices (often shared)
* boilerplate backmatter
* IX

At publication time, we open the book to be published and its settings.fm file; update the variable definitions as needed in the settings file; and then use Rick Quatro's ImportFormatsSpecial plugin to apply just the condition tags, PDF settings, and user variables to the book's files, before generating the appropriate PDF or online output. (NOTE: If you have ePub, you can use "stationery" to set this up for you automagically as part of the sequence of output creation.) As soon as the output is generated, we use Bruce Foster's Archive plugin to create a discreet, reproducible project folder that we archive as a zip file in our CMS. (There are ways to use this same plugin in conjuction with ClearCase or other CMS for individual file check-in/check-out—frequently discussed on this list—but we've chosen to keep the source encrypted as part of doc security and check in/out as a single file for streamlining purposes. And, there are several other plugins and FrameScripts that
we have bought and use frequently, but these two are the ones that are part of our final production process.)

For product-level content management, there is a single book file for each product that incorporates all the chapter files, text insets, and shared product-level files, so when we need to run spellcheck or apply new template updates, we can do so efficiently and effectively.

This said, it is for us an efficient model, but it's a level of complexity that writers new to our shop find challenging to get into the swing of things. Those of us who have been here as it has evolved are like the proverbial frogs in boiling water: we don't notice the heat, because it was increased incrementally. ;-)

HTH
Rene Stephenson



Ellen Lebelle <***@gmail.com> wrote:
<< If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158.

OK, Sam.

How about using smaller text insets that you import into your chapters. So
your chapter is a shell - not quite empty - you can have most of your
generic text there, but when you get to a topic that is product A, you
import the text inset for product A and make it "conditional" and do the
same for product B. When you import your conditional settings from the book
cover, only the relevant text insets will appear.

Use Bruce Foster's Archiver to make an archive of the A book and label it
with the date and number. Do the same for Book B and these archives remain
archives, and your source files can be updated without fouling up the
archived books.

[Miriam Lezak]

Sam:

If you conditionalize the whole row, that row should disappear when you turn
the condition off. The colored borders indicate that you've correctly
conditionalized it (rather than just conditionalizing the text within the
border).

If that doesn't make sense, let me know.

Miriam


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Beard" <***@oico.com>
To: <***@frameusers.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question


Hello All,



I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.



I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.



Thanks much in advance!



Samuel I. Beard, Jr.

Technical Writer

OI Analytical

979 690-1711 Ext. 222

***@oico.com





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[Sam Beard]

All,

Thanks much for the help on this issue, but I need to clarify a few
things. First, I'm aware of the purpose of using conditional text, which
is what helped me to get this job. However, I have no real choice as to
having three separate files (my second point), because of our
documentation control system. We number our documents with a one-up
system, including the month/year as the last four parts of an
eight-digit number. If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158. Therefore, I have to maintain
having three separate books for each document, hiding and viewing the
appropriate conditional text and saving it to the appropriate folder on
our system. Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that,
then that's the way it is here. Before I started here, the documents
were COMPLETELY maintained as two separate books, even though there was
a LOT of cross-over text between them. Obviously, this made updating
them much more of a challenge and they are actually out of step with
each other by one version. I'm not sure that's something that will
change, either. I'll probably have to use a variable or something else
to indicate the version numbers of the two and conditionalize that, as
well.
I believe everyone that responded mentioned hiding the conditional
text indicators, so I'll need to check into how to change that. I wasn't
aware of how to change that, which is why I posted my question. So,
thanks to all of you for the tips on that. I'll see if I can determine
how to hide the indicators.
Thanks again and have a great day!

Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
***@oico.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Lezak [mailto:***@marzak.org]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:01 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Frame User's Group
Subject: Re: Conditional Text Question

Sam:

If you conditionalize the whole row, that row should disappear when you
turn
the condition off. The colored borders indicate that you've correctly
conditionalized it (rather than just conditionalizing the text within
the
border).

If that doesn't make sense, let me know.

Miriam


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Beard" <***@oico.com>
To: <***@frameusers.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question


Hello All,



I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.



I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.



Thanks much in advance!



Samuel I. Beard, Jr.

Technical Writer

OI Analytical

979 690-1711 Ext. 222

***@oico.com





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[Steve Rickaby]

However, I have no real choice as to having three separate files (my second point), because of our documentation control system. We number our documents with a one-up system, including the month/year as the last four parts of an
eight-digit number. If these documents were for a new product line, we MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number. However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first one is 1950 while the second one is 2158. Therefore, I have to maintain having three separate books for each document, hiding and viewing the appropriate conditional text and saving it to the appropriate folder on our system. Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that, then that's the way it is here.

Does your DCS support aliases?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Sorry for the typos in that last email.

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Hi Sam,

I have a similar situation, where I have three similar books. What I do
is have 3 separate books. Some of the chapters are shared between the
books (and use conditional text), and some of them are unique to each book.

I'm not sure I follow what your system, bit this is what I would do:

-Have 2 separate books, each one having one or more unique chapters,
such as the chapter with the document number. (I wouldn't want to use a
variable or conditional text for the document number. Since it's an
important number I would want it to be static for each book.)

- Place the similar chapters in a folder on the network called "shared
FM chapters." Add those files to each of the two books. In each of those
shared chapters, use conditional text to mark the unique parts of the
chapter.

That's it. Sounds simpler than your system.

You could use conditional text for the footer also, but I use a variable
for that. I have a separate file with only one custom variable,
"Footer." When I'm working on Book A, I open my Footer file, redefine
the Footer variable, and then import only the variables from that file
to the book I'm working on.


Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson

Shmuel,
Thanks for the response and sorry it's taken me a while to get back
to you. I got sidetracked with some other issues.
The document number is only on one page in the front section of the
manual and is how we track projects and their updates. The number is an
eight digit number with the first four digits a one-up number assigned
to each document as it comes along. The latter four digits are the
month-year of when the latest version is released. So, a new document
might have a number like 23450707, indicating it's released in July of
2007 and the one-up part is 2345. If a revision is made to the document
in August, the number becomes 23450807.
There are several files for each book with a front section (fairly
static with the exception of the document title, document number, and
perhaps a short bit other text, depending on the document), a TOC, and
then the various chapters. For the documents that are quick-start guides
or other short documents, there is only the text related to the document
itself. However, the questions I have don't concern these documents,
only the multi-file books.
I've seen the answers from you and others about removing the
conditional text markers and will do that with the books. I really
appreciate the support, as that's mostly what I was looking for when I
posted my question. However, if there is a better way to do this than
the way I am, that would also be appreciated.
A quick refresher: two products very similar to each other (with at
least one other sometime in the near future, probably); a lot of common
text between them; currently, a master document set with a book
containing several files marked with conditional text; and two other
book files saved to separate folders named for the first four numbers in
the document numbering system, with the appropriate conditional text
hidden for each book. Since I have to store two versions of the manual
under each folder, I thought the best way to do it was to hide the
conditional text for one, save the document under the name/folder for
the other, and do the same for the second one.
I hope that I've made it pretty clear, but please ask if there's
something that isn't. Thanks much for the assistance! The techwr-l and
framer's lists are great resources with great people on them!
Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 4:23 PM
To: Sam Beard
Subject: Re: Conditional Text Question
I don't see why the document number should prevent you from using a
single file. There are solutions for that too. But first tell me whether
the document number is on every page of the manual, or just on one page?
Are you using several files contained in a book?
Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson

Post by Sam Beard
All,
Thanks much for the help on this issue, but I need to clarify a few
things. First, I'm aware of the purpose of using conditional text,

which

Post by Sam Beard
is what helped me to get this job. However, I have no real choice as

to

Post by Sam Beard
having three separate files (my second point), because of our
documentation control system. We number our documents with a one-up
system, including the month/year as the last four parts of an
eight-digit number. If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The

first

Post by Sam Beard
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158. Therefore, I have to

maintain

Post by Sam Beard
having three separate books for each document, hiding and viewing the
appropriate conditional text and saving it to the appropriate folder

on

Post by Sam Beard
our system. Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that,
then that's the way it is here. Before I started here, the documents
were COMPLETELY maintained as two separate books, even though there

was

Post by Sam Beard
a LOT of cross-over text between them. Obviously, this made updating
them much more of a challenge and they are actually out of step with
each other by one version. I'm not sure that's something that will
change, either. I'll probably have to use a variable or something else
to indicate the version numbers of the two and conditionalize that, as
well.
I believe everyone that responded mentioned hiding the conditional
text indicators, so I'll need to check into how to change that. I

wasn't

Post by Sam Beard
aware of how to change that, which is why I posted my question. So,
thanks to all of you for the tips on that. I'll see if I can determine
how to hide the indicators.
Thanks again and have a great day!
Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:01 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Frame User's Group
Subject: Re: Conditional Text Question
If you conditionalize the whole row, that row should disappear when

you

Post by Sam Beard
turn
the condition off. The colored borders indicate that you've correctly
conditionalized it (rather than just conditionalizing the text within the
border).
If that doesn't make sense, let me know.
Miriam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question
Hello All,
I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between

two

Post by Sam Beard
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text

is

Post by Sam Beard
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is

to

Post by Sam Beard
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.
I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.
Thanks much in advance!
Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
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To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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Post by Sam Beard
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info

[Ridder, Fred]

The Show/Hide Conditional Text dialog has an option box labeled
"Sow Condition Indicators" just below the "Show" list box. This
option toggles the color and other (e.g. underlining or strikethrough)
highlighting of all conditions that are set to show.

As far as archiving product-specific source files, another approach
that has not been mentioned is this one:
-Make a duplicate set of the complete, conditionalized book and
source files.
-In the duplicate file set, use the Edit Condition Tag command in the
Conditional Text dialog to delete each of the condition tags that
relate to the other versions of the product. Each time you invoke
the command for a condition that is actually in use in the file,
you'll get a dialog that asks you whether you wish to make the
tagged text unconditional or delete the text. Since the tags you
are deleting relate to other product versions, choose the delete
option.
-If you want to get serious, repeat the preceding step for the
conditions that are specific to the current version of the product,
but choose the "make unconditional" option.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Staff Information Services Analyst
Intel
Parsippany, NJ



-----Original Message-----
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=***@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=***@lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Sam Beard
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Frame User's Group
Cc: ***@polycom.com; ***@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Conditional Text Question


All,

Thanks much for the help on this issue, but I need to clarify a few
things. First, I'm aware of the purpose of using conditional text, which
is what helped me to get this job. However, I have no real choice as to
having three separate files (my second point), because of our
documentation control system. We number our documents with a one-up
system, including the month/year as the last four parts of an
eight-digit number. If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158. Therefore, I have to maintain
having three separate books for each document, hiding and viewing the
appropriate conditional text and saving it to the appropriate folder on
our system. Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that,
then that's the way it is here. Before I started here, the documents
were COMPLETELY maintained as two separate books, even though there was
a LOT of cross-over text between them. Obviously, this made updating
them much more of a challenge and they are actually out of step with
each other by one version. I'm not sure that's something that will
change, either. I'll probably have to use a variable or something else
to indicate the version numbers of the two and conditionalize that, as
well.
I believe everyone that responded mentioned hiding the conditional
text indicators, so I'll need to check into how to change that. I wasn't
aware of how to change that, which is why I posted my question. So,
thanks to all of you for the tips on that. I'll see if I can determine
how to hide the indicators.
Thanks again and have a great day!

Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
***@oico.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Lezak [mailto:***@marzak.org]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:01 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Frame User's Group
Subject: Re: Conditional Text Question

Sam:

If you conditionalize the whole row, that row should disappear when you
turn
the condition off. The colored borders indicate that you've correctly
conditionalized it (rather than just conditionalizing the text within
the
border).

If that doesn't make sense, let me know.

Miriam


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Beard" <***@oico.com>
To: <***@frameusers.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question


Hello All,



I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.



I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.



Thanks much in advance!



Samuel I. Beard, Jr.

Technical Writer

OI Analytical

979 690-1711 Ext. 222

***@oico.com





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[Sam Beard]

Fred and Others,

Sorry it's taken me some time to get back to the list and those that
offered assistance, but I was sidetracked by another project.
Thanks to everyone for the great ideas and offers of help! At this
point, I think that Fred's idea is the best one. It resolves the issues
I had privately about having the conditional text for the other product
in the same file as what I wanted to have, albeit hidden, and it also
eliminates the major problem I had with the conditional text markers.
This way, if anyone else looks at the files later on, they (hopefully)
won't be confused with the (in some cases) double text if they make
things unconditional. It makes things nice and clean!
Thanks again to a great set of people! The techwr-l and framer's
lists are great resources with wonderful people subscribed and willing
to help out! I'll continue to read and (mostly) lurk, offering
suggestions or comments as warranted.

Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
***@oico.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ridder, Fred [mailto:***@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:19 PM
To: Sam Beard; Frame User's Group
Subject: RE: Conditional Text Question

The Show/Hide Conditional Text dialog has an option box labeled
"Sow Condition Indicators" just below the "Show" list box. This
option toggles the color and other (e.g. underlining or strikethrough)
highlighting of all conditions that are set to show.

As far as archiving product-specific source files, another approach
that has not been mentioned is this one:
-Make a duplicate set of the complete, conditionalized book and
source files.
-In the duplicate file set, use the Edit Condition Tag command in the
Conditional Text dialog to delete each of the condition tags that
relate to the other versions of the product. Each time you invoke
the command for a condition that is actually in use in the file,
you'll get a dialog that asks you whether you wish to make the
tagged text unconditional or delete the text. Since the tags you
are deleting relate to other product versions, choose the delete
option.
-If you want to get serious, repeat the preceding step for the
conditions that are specific to the current version of the product,
but choose the "make unconditional" option.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Staff Information Services Analyst
Intel
Parsippany, NJ



-----Original Message-----
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=***@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=***@lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Sam Beard
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Frame User's Group
Cc: ***@polycom.com; ***@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Conditional Text Question


All,

Thanks much for the help on this issue, but I need to clarify a few
things. First, I'm aware of the purpose of using conditional text, which
is what helped me to get this job. However, I have no real choice as to
having three separate files (my second point), because of our
documentation control system. We number our documents with a one-up
system, including the month/year as the last four parts of an
eight-digit number. If these documents were for a new product line, we
MIGHT be able to get away with putting them into a single number.
However, they are for two separate but similar product lines. The first
one is 1950 while the second one is 2158. Therefore, I have to maintain
having three separate books for each document, hiding and viewing the
appropriate conditional text and saving it to the appropriate folder on
our system. Unless someone has an idea about how to get around that,
then that's the way it is here. Before I started here, the documents
were COMPLETELY maintained as two separate books, even though there was
a LOT of cross-over text between them. Obviously, this made updating
them much more of a challenge and they are actually out of step with
each other by one version. I'm not sure that's something that will
change, either. I'll probably have to use a variable or something else
to indicate the version numbers of the two and conditionalize that, as
well.
I believe everyone that responded mentioned hiding the conditional
text indicators, so I'll need to check into how to change that. I wasn't
aware of how to change that, which is why I posted my question. So,
thanks to all of you for the tips on that. I'll see if I can determine
how to hide the indicators.
Thanks again and have a great day!

Samuel I. Beard, Jr.
Technical Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
***@oico.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Lezak [mailto:***@marzak.org]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:01 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Frame User's Group
Subject: Re: Conditional Text Question

Sam:

If you conditionalize the whole row, that row should disappear when you
turn
the condition off. The colored borders indicate that you've correctly
conditionalized it (rather than just conditionalizing the text within
the
border).

If that doesn't make sense, let me know.

Miriam


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Beard" <***@oico.com>
To: <***@frameusers.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Conditional Text Question


Hello All,



I have a document that uses conditional text to delineate between two
different versions of the same basic product. Before I started this,
there were two separate books for each manual, even though there is a
LOT of cross-over text between them that is the same. I combined them
into a single set of master files and am marking the conditional text,
hiding what I don't want to see, and saving the resulting file for the
two separate books. Now, I have three files for each chapter of the
book: Master, Version 1, and Version 2. All well and good. However, I
also have ALL of the text in all three files, albeit Version 1's text is
hidden in Version 2, and vice-versa. Is there a way to permanently
remove the text for Version 1 from Version 2, and vice-versa, while
maintaining the master file? One of the reasons I need to do this is to
remove the borders around cells in a table that are conditionalized.
Currently, there are large colored borders around any table cells that
are marked as conditional.



I'm on Windows XP with Frame 7.2b144.



Thanks much in advance!



Samuel I. Beard, Jr.

Technical Writer

OI Analytical

979 690-1711 Ext. 222

***@oico.com





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